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Targeting
Geplaatst: vr jan 15, 2010 11:21 am
door Maccius
Ik en mijn vrienden krijgen zoals iedereen als we magic spelen regelmatig een discusie. Vaak over protection of schroud in combinatie met een variatie van andere effecten.
Eigenlijk komen alle vragen telkens op hetzelfde neer. En dat is of iets target of niet. Ik heb dit in de uitgebreide regels proberen op te zoeken.
Heel regel 113 3 keer doorgelezen en heb nu hoofdpijn.
Maar zoals ik het nu bekijk target een instant/sorcery/activated of triggered ability alleen als er daadwerkelijk target op de kaart staat. Of in de beschrijving van de ability zoals bijvoorbeeld equip. Waarbij bij de equip regel het woord target staat.
Aura spells targetten altijd.
Alle andere gevallen targetten niet. Al is het vaak overduidelijk dat je in gesproken tekst iets target. Ik bedoel daarmee overal waar dingen staan als: Choose one, a source, all creatues, move creature, you , your opponent, gain life for enz.
Ja ook gain life want ik kan mezelf shroud geven. Dus dan heb je opeens veel meer zaken die op mij gebeuren, maar die niet target zeggen.
Kan iemand bevestigen dat ik het nu goed heb.
Geplaatst: vr jan 15, 2010 12:00 pm
door altx
Ja, inderdaad. Als het woord "target" er niet in voorkomt, dan target het niet.
"target creature" target wel.
"a creature" en "all creatures" targeten niet.
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Dat een aura spell altijd target, zou je overigens uit kunnen leggen door voor bijv. een enchant creature te lezen: "Attach {this} to target creature".
Geplaatst: vr jan 15, 2010 12:07 pm
door Saint
De exacte uitleg van shroud is:
Shroud
Shroud is a static ability of players or permanents. A player or permanent with shroud cannot be the target of spells or abilities (even his or her own). While the keyword "shroud" was introduced in Future Sight, the ability itself existed long before, first appearing on the Svyelunite Priest from 1994's Fallen Empires; cards which featured this ability were all issued rules errata to have or grant "shroud." Creatures with shroud are most often blue or green.
Verder uit het regelboek:
702.16. Shroud
702.16a Shroud is a static ability. “Shroud” means “This permanent or player can’t be the target of
spells or abilities.”
702.16b Multiple instances of shroud on the same permanent or player are redundant.
En zoals alt al zei klopt
Geplaatst: vr jan 15, 2010 1:54 pm
door Dragonheart
@Saint
Uhm, kun je niet beter de regels voor targetten erin plakken? Daar gaat het namelijk over.
Geplaatst: vr jan 15, 2010 5:12 pm
door Saint
Ja hoort er ook tussen maar kon het even niet zo snel vinden, zal het toevoegen.
Edit: En hier staat alles over targets en targetting (heb het niet uitgezocht dus maar alles gecopy & paste lol)
113. Targets
113.1. Some spells and abilities require their controller to choose one or more targets for them. The
targets are object(s), player(s), and/or zone(s) the spell or ability will affect. These targets are
declared as part of the process of putting the spell or ability on the stack. The targets can’t be
changed except by another spell or ability that explicitly says it can do so.
113.1a An instant or sorcery spell is targeted if its spell ability identifies something it will affect by
using the phrase “target [something],” where the “something” is a phrase that describes an
object, player, or zone. The target(s) are chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. (If an
activated or triggered ability of an instant or sorcery uses the word target, that ability is targeted,
but the spell is not.)
Example: A sorcery card has the ability “When you cycle this card, target creature gets
-1/-1 until end of turn.” This triggered ability is targeted, but that doesn’t make the card
it’s on targeted.
113.1b Aura spells are always targeted. These are the only permanent spells with targets. An Aura’s
target is specified by its enchant keyword ability (see rule 702.5, “Enchant”). The target(s) are
chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. An Aura permanent doesn’t target anything; only the
spell is targeted. (An activated or triggered ability of an Aura permanent can also be targeted.)
113.1c An activated ability is targeted if it identifies something it will affect by using the phrase
“target [something],” where the “something” is a phrase that describes an object, player, or
zone. The target(s) are chosen as the ability is activated; see rule 602.2b.
113.1d A triggered ability is targeted if it identifies something it will affect by using the phrase
“target [something],” where the “something” is a phrase that describes an object, player, or
zone. The target(s) are chosen as the ability is put on the stack; see rule 603.3d.
113.1e Some keyword abilities, such as equip and provoke, represent targeted activated or triggered
abilities. In those cases, the phrase “target [something]” appears in the rule for that keyword
ability rather than in the ability itself. (The keyword’s reminder text will often contain the word
“target.”) See rule 702, “Keyword Abilities.”
113.2. Only permanents are legal targets for spells and abilities, unless a spell or ability (a) specifies
that it can target an object in another zone or a player, (b) targets an object that can’t exist on the
battlefield, such as a spell or ability, or (c) targets a zone.
113.3. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word “target” on a
spell or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word “target” in multiple places, the same object,
player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word “target” (as long as it fits the
targeting criteria).
113.4. A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself.
113.5. Spells and abilities that can have zero or more targets are targeted only if one or more targets
have been chosen for them.
113.6. Some effects allow a player to change the target of a spell or ability. If so, the target can be
changed only to another legal target. If the target can’t be changed to another legal target, the
original target is unchanged, even if the original target is itself illegal by then.
113.6a Modal spells and abilities may have different targeting requirements for each mode. An
effect that allows a player to change the target of a modal spell or ability doesn’t allow that
player to change its mode. (See rule 700.2.)
113.7. Some objects check what another spell or ability is targeting. Depending on the wording, these
may check the current state of the targets, the state of the targets at the time they were selected, or
both.
113.7a An object that looks for a “[spell or ability] that targets [something]” checks the current state
of that spell or ability’s targets. If an object it targets is still in the zone it’s expected to be in or a
player it targets is still in the game, that target’s current information is used, even if it’s not
currently legal for that spell or ability. If an object it targets is no longer in the zone it’s
expected to be in or a player it targets is no longer in the game, that target is ignored; its last
known information is not used.
113.7b An object that looks for a “[spell or ability] with a single target” checks the number of times
any objects, players, or zones became the target of that spell or ability when it was put on the
stack, not the number of its targets that are currently legal. If the same object, player, or zone
became a target more than once, each of those instances is counted separately.
113.7c An object that looks for a “[spell or ability] that targets only [something]” checks the
number of different objects or players that became the target of that spell or ability when it was
put on the stack (as modified by effects that changed those targets), not the number of those
objects or players that are currently legal targets. If that number is one (even if the spell or
ability targets that object or player multiple times), the current state of that spell or ability’s
target is checked as described in rule 113.7a.
113.9. Spells and abilities can affect objects and players they don’t target. In general, those objects and
players aren’t chosen until the spell or ability resolves. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and
Abilities.”
113.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that
object orplayer a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by theword “target” in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it is not a
target.
113.9b In particular, the word “you” in an object’s text doesn’t indicate a target.
Enjoy lol
Geplaatst: za jan 16, 2010 3:46 pm
door pi
Oy,
overigens targetten equipements en enchantments alleen wanneer je ze op het creature legt. Als ze er eenmaal liggen dna zijn ze niet meer ana het targetten. Een beurt later een creature untargettable maken doet dus weinig tegen deze.
mazzel
pi
Geplaatst: za jan 16, 2010 6:34 pm
door Maccius
Ik begon er mee dat ik heel regel 113 3 keer had doorgelezen en er hoofdpijn van had
Dus hartstikke bedankt voor het er nog een keer inplakken
Nee serieus bedankt voor de antwoorden weer.
Geplaatst: za jan 16, 2010 8:02 pm
door Saint
Had ik al gelezen maar dragon zei het is wel makkelijk om het te plakken (is meer voor anderen die met dezelfde vraag zitten als jij)